Paranormal Yakker with your host Stan Mallow

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Season 2 Episode 4

P.M.H. Atwater. The Forever Angels: Near-Death Experiences in Childhood and Their Lifelong Impact.
P.M.H. Atwater is a well-respected researcher of near-death experiences, and she has written many books on the subject. It includes Children of the Fifth World, Beyond the Indigo Children, and The New Children and Near-Death Experiences. In her interview with Stan Mallow, the Paranormal Yakker, P.M.H. talks about her book, The Forever Angels: Near-Death Experiences in Childhood and Their Lifelong Impact. The first in-depth study of how near-death experiences of the very young affected them not just as youngsters, but as adults. She interviewed approximately 400 people and discussed the experiences of many of them. They included the circumstances that led to their near-death experiences, what they saw, what they felt, what was the other side like there. Some even talk about remembering being in their mother’s womb and the birth experience. In her book, P.M.H. points out that a high percentage of experiencers develop strong psychic and intuitive abilities and give examples of how they use those abilities in their personal lives, be it for their careers or relationships. She also mentions many famous people, both historical figures and contemporary figures, who went to the top of their respective fields and had a common denominator, near-death experiences as youngsters. It includes William Shakespeare, Doctor Bernie Siegel, and actor Benedict Cumberbatch. People who have near-death experiences as youngsters differ from those who have it as P.M.H. explains those differences.

Transcript of video Interview

Stan Mallow
Hi everyone, I'm Stan Mallow. Welcome to Paranormal Yakker. My guest on today's show is PMH Atwater, a world renowned or authority on near-death experience. On today's show, I'll be discussing with her "The Forever Angels," a groundbreaking book about near-death experiences in childhood and their lifelong impact. PMH Atwater, welcome to Paranormal Yakker.
PMH Atwater
Good to be here. Yes.
Stan Mallow
Your book, "The Forever Angels," is the first in-depth study of how near-death experiences of the very young affected them not just as youngsters, but as adults. Since you interviewed some 400 people for the book, that's a lot of people, I was curious about how you were able to convince so many people to open up and share their near-death experiences with you, because I'm sure many of them kept it inside, never sharing it with anybody.
PMH Atwater
I didn't have any problem at all getting people to open up. They were really ready to. it was almost as if someone had opened a door for them that had never been opened before, and they just poured, and poured, and poured. You know, the book is really a double study. In the '90s, I worked a lot with child experiencers. Let's say the youngest I was working with were kindergarten on about through the 20s and 30s. The people that I was working with were always forward-looking because they were young. This latest study I did, I went after people in their 50, 60, 70s, and 80s who could verify having had a near-death experience between birth and the age of five. And I asked them one question, Stan. I asked them, "Did having such an experience like that "when you were very young, "did that make any difference in your life? "If it did, tell me about it." You know, in essence, I was asking for an essay. I was just flooded. Flooded. I mean, the people just poured, and poured, and poured. This one fellow, he had retired. His essay was, I mean, it was over 50 pages with photographs of his family because he'd never been able to talk about this to anybody. I had so many essays that came back that were so tear stained I could hardly read them. These were people who had been neglected before, couldn't talk about it before at all to anyone. You'd be very interested in this. I had this one woman and she said, "Nobody ever asks people in poverty anything." She had to save up her pennies and her coin to be able to pay for the postage to send me her offering. And I was just so touched by that, because she's right. I went after people on Native American reservation. I went after people anywhere. All kinds of sexual types, anybody, everybody, every race, everywhere that would talk to me, I went after them. The result, it's blasting off the page. You know, anybody who reads "The Forever Angel" are going to be so stunned, so surprised. A study like this has never been done before. There's never been anybody anywhere who did an in-depth study on birth to the age of five, plus nobody has ever taken the full round. What's a near-death experience like from birth until death? The after-effects. What's it like for an individual until they're in their 70s and 80s? The pattern of after-effects. We've got the near-death experience that people know so much about, it's the pattern of after-effects that validate it. In other words, physiological after-effects, psychological after-effects, most of people don't pay any attention to that. And it's that pattern. And what this study proves is that pattern of after-effects increases over time.
Stan Mallow
PMH, in your research, What did you find was the biggest difference between those who had a near-death experience as an adult versus those who had the experience as a youngster?
PMH Atwater
It depends on the age of the child. The older children, teenagers, adults, all follow the established pattern. You get someone from six years old, younger, especially from five years old, younger, in other words, from birth to the age of five, they are so different in that they defy the pattern. They really show us that the near-death experience between birth and the age of five, these little, little, little ones, it's almost like a whole different experience because these little ones don't have a before, you know? There's no before. All of the standard stuff we know about the near-death experience, all of the science, all of the books does not fit them at all. Doesn't that just blow your mind? This is 397 people, doesn't fit them at all.
Stan Mallow
Yeah, I found that absolutely intriguing. In fact, when I read your book, I was enthralled with your study and the information you gave. Now, I was wondering, did you find while interviewing subjects from different races, religions, and cultures, any commonality in their near-death experience, or was there a noticeable difference?
PMH Atwater
Oh, there's no differences at all with the little ones. I mean, there's no before. I mean, they don't know what a Mormon is. They don't know what a Catholic is. They don't know what a Hindu is. I mean, there's no before, Stan. So that's why I say it's a whole different viewpoint. A lot of them didn't even know what a human being was. In reading the book, certainly that were some of them who could remember past lives, drew pictures of past lives. There's a lot of drawings in the book, by the way. Most of them ... This just blows your mind. Most of them don't relate to reincarnation at all. They instead look at the life continuum. In other words, for them, life is forever flowing. It's a stream. It's forever flowing. And once in a while there'll be a dip, and that's a life, and they'll come back to the stream and they'll keep on flowing. And then there'll be another dip, and that's a life, and they keep on flowing. Their interest is the stream, not the dips. Their interest is the stream. They're coming into life wondering, "What am I here for? "What's going on?" Some of them know what they're here for, most of them did not. And their biggest test, their biggest challenge was, number one, they didn't fit the family. 90% of them do not bond with their parents. That doesn't mean they don't love them, but it does mean they don't bond with them. They don't relate to brothers and sisters at all. They're smarter than their teachers. So they're wondering what they are doing in school because they know more than the teacher does. So in the teen years and early adult years, they tend to get really have a lot of challenges with dating, with sex, with drugs and, you know, beer and alcohol, and going to college, and maybe not going to college, and getting a date, and getting a job. That tends to be sort of catch as catch can. Those who did finally settle down, and go to college, and get a great job, or get a great job anyway without college, of those, whether or not they ever married or not, I'm just really floored by those who got into science and history, anything to do with making things, that they just weren't interested in other lines of work. There's a whole chapter in the book called "Historical Cases." Yes, we had a few that got into entertainment. Just look at those who got into science. They weren't interested in being a minister, or being a healer. They were interested in what makes things work and what's the truth about this world. So, therefore, they got into science.
Stan Mallow
For those of your subjects who remember being on the other side, how did they describe that other side?
PMH Atwater
They don't use words like you and I would use. Rather it was bright, that word bright covers a lot of territory. Lots of light, very loving, very exciting, very peaceful, very enjoyable. So they're using adjectives. They're using, rather than nouns, they're using feelings. I noticed that right away that when they're talking about the other world, they're not using nouns like you and I would. You know, this is a place, this is a... No. Or this is a body, this is a person, this is an angel. No. They're using feelings and the idea of brightness. And you get a lot of that.
Stan Mallow
In your book, you mentioned a number of the experiencers you interviewed can recall being in their mother's womb. How did they describe what they saw and what they felt?
PMH Atwater
This is Penny, and she's in her mother's womb, and she would always know whenever her mother was going to get a cigarette, because she could pick up the vibration in her mother and the feelings in her mother's body and in her brain, and, you know, all these feelings. And she would, "Oh dear, mother's gonna have a cigarette." And she would have to prepare herself, because that smoke and the effects of that smoke went directly into the womb. Get this all daughters out there, get this all pregnant women out there, that child in your womb knows what you're going to do, and will start going, "Oh, no." Or prepare themselves the best they can because they're affected right away. They don't like it. They don't like it at all. And they wish their mothers would not smoke. I never ran across one that enjoyed it. No, not at all. And the same way with alcohol, they did not enjoy the mothers when they would have hot, spicy food, alcohol, tobacco, or anything like that. They didn't like that at all.
Stan Mallow
Were any of your experiencers able to recall a past life? And if they did, were they a different gender, race, or religion than what they are now?
PMH Atwater
Some of them would talk about that dip in the stream, which is a life. And certainly in the book, there are some stories and drawings, those who could remember, or very clearly and definitely knew past lives, maybe going back several lives. But again, most of them are just not interested. It's almost as if that doesn't matter or didn't happen. That wasn't what interested them. That isn't what mattered to them. Rather, this incredible presence, this incredible, you know, how can I explain this or even describe it? This incredible light presence. You can call it a vibration, but I'm not sure I'd even call it a vibration. Just this presence that is so all, so whole, so loving, so complete, so full that it's hard for them to accept ... It's a challenge for them to accept being in a human body that has limits. You know, if you touch a burner, you get burned. You know? That kind of thing. We have live limits in a body, and it's hard for them to understand limits.
Stan Mallow
Oh, were any of those you interviewed able to explain the process involved in how they were born into the families they now have? Was it their choice? Did some higher power decide that? Was it totally random or what? PMH Atwater Kind of all of the above. Some of them slipped into their family because there was a prearrangement. They knew they were going into that family, that mom or dad, or siblings needed them in some way, there was a need factor. So they would slip into that particular family. Sometimes there's a sense of having been with those souls before, so they wanted to be with them again. But more often, I got a real kick out of some of them. They said, well, you know, they just wound up there because they got booted in.
Stan Mallow
Some of the stories your subjects talked about were absolutely heart wrenching. One that stands out for me is that of Mimi you wrote about, who, at just one and a half years of age, was stripped naked, viciously beaten to unconsciousness by her father. Hearing such stories, how did it affect you emotionally? I was wondering, how did you deal with that?
PMH Atwater
These people that I worked with did a lot of crying. Certainly there was a lot of child abuse that I came across and a lot of people feeling very lost. Some of the people who wound up in Native American societies really felt as if they were lost and sort of had to find a way to make that life work for them. Other people who wound up in Native American societies felt like this is their home. They were so glad they were with these kinds of people because that was their people, their clansmen. But, you know, I'm searching for ways of being able to explain this or even offer this in a way that will make any sense. Those where there's child abuse, I ran across three that were born into Satanic cults, and one of them was the worst in the sense of how she was treated. She had 17 near-death experiences by about the age of 10. Her parents, the only reason they birthed her or that she came in was that they could use her on the alter for Satan. Horrible, horrible things she went through, and her story's there in the book. Certainly she didn't... She was very challenged by what it is to be normal, what it is to be loved, what it is to be cared for. I mean, what are those things? She never felt them. To find some kind of normalcy. She went through a lot of psychological treatment, of course, but she said... This is interesting because I found this a lot. She said that she found more help from psychics than she did from psychologists. And I ran across that again, and again, and again. Also in her case from yoga, and from yoga training, and the yoga philosophy, and the yoga therapeutics. In her case, she got more help from yoga than any place else. And now today she's married, she has several children, she is a healer. She's also a good cook her children said. And she has found a very happy and loving life, but she said it really was because of yoga, and getting into yoga, and practicing the postures. That made a big difference for her. But it runs the whole gamut of people who were able to accept their life and we're not. This is one of the things maybe it would be appropriate right now to broach, and that is sort of the underbelly of the near-death experience. Very seldom ever is it discussed at conferences, in books, or anywhere else about how many people, any age, after the near-death experience want to commit suicide and go back. With adults, I'd say less than 5%, at least in my research base. And my research base is nearly 5,000 adults and children. So not that many, but certainly some who are dealing with that. With these little ones, now I'm talking specifically most of the age of five, Stan, that's a big deal. I want to say here that, and be very specific, when we're talking about near-death experiences with young children and overall as they grow up and mature, 74%, let's remember that number, 74% become very, very successful in life. A number of them became millionaires. I mean, these are smart people. What I found again, and again, and again with these littlest ones who had a near-death experience, they're smarter than the average kid afterwards. I know, yes, the research hasn't been done yet, but I know that somehow that near-death experience changes the brain. And in a child, it gives them a jumpstart, so they come back smarter. Most of these kids are abstracting by the first grade, and we can talk about that later. They're smarter than the average person. It somehow affects the brain in such a way that it really enhances that ability. So we've got 74% coming back really, really successful. 74% either... 74% suicide ideation. Same number. 74% successful, 74% want to go back, whether it's killing themselves, I.e. suicide, or in some way dying to get back. And I have a whole chapter in the book for that. So, you know, all of you psychiatrists, and psychiatrists who are listening, please, please get the book for that, because I go in depth about that. One of the things we're forgetting here is how a child responds to suicide. First of all, I want to say that with their near-death experience, and I want to be specific here, this is why I'm hunting for papers. 34% were positive about their near-death experience. 61% were negative. This is just the opposite of what you hear with adults or older kids. That's because we do not understand a child's mind. A child when they think about this, they're thinking, "When I was in this beautiful light, "this incredibly loving place "with all of these bright people," very seldom will a child use the name angel. It's only older kids that use angels usually. But the little ones seldom ever, ever use the word angel, unless they've heard it somewhere. They don't use that word. So they're in this bright world with all these loving people, but then they're not breathing. So now they're no longer in that beautiful, loving world, but they are breathing. So, for a child's logic, the way to get back to that beautiful, loving world, is to stop my breathing. They don't think in terms of that's going to upset anybody, that's going to hurt anybody, that's going to interfere with their family or their life. They don't think in these terms. They just think of, "Oh, I want to go back "to where the loving people are." They want to stop the breathing. And it's throughout their life. Stan, it's throughout their life. That longing never goes away. Most of them don't try suicide because they're older now, they understand what that is, they don't want to hurt people, so they don't actually try it. But there's this there's suicide ideation or PTSD, this longing and desire. So, I've got, I hope, a lot of help in that book for these folk, hopefully to help them realize how normal this reaction is and how you can deal with it. And I'll tell you for the little ones, the easiest, quickest way is visualization. Just visualization. Teaching them how to go back with their mind, visit or whatever they want to do, and then come back again and go on with their lives. Just that simple act of visualization heals so many wounds and helps them in incredible ways deal with the complexity of their experience.
Stan Mallow
You interviewed experiencers who were twins. Were you were able to speak with both of them? And if you did, did they have similar memories?
PMH Atwater
With the twins, about half the time I could speak with both of them, the other half I could not. Those that I could speak with, yes, they had very similar memories. And in fact, many of them knew each other. Those that I didn't, you know, I don't know. I don't know how that worked out. But those that I could make the comparison with, yeah, they knew each other. And what was amazing to me, was stillborn or miscarried. We're talking here the twin, but only one is born. The other dies somewhere in the uterus between, you know, second month or, you know, whatever. The one that is born remembers the other and goes on with their life considering the other their best friend. Look at Elvis Presley. Only he was born, the other one was not. Miscarried, died. But Elvis forever was connected to his other "brother," and never got over that relationship with his brother. You find that a lot with near-death experiencers. The one who was born knows the other one. And another thing that really captured my mind is, we're talking about the one in the womb, they will know if that womb was inhabited before by a previous child. Let's say mom had a child and miscarried. Years later, she gets pregnant again. I'm going to stay nine chances out of 10 the new one will know that womb has been inhabited before, and somehow they will know a little bit about that other being that was miscarried. And I found that absolutely fascinating how they would know that the womb had been inhabited before.
Stan Mallow
I was wondering, was there a common denominator regarding the circumstances that led to the near-death experiences of those you interviewed? Did it occur more if they drowned or were being operated on at a hospital? Was it other circumstances that stands out which triggered that near-death experience?
PMH Atwater
Well, certainly a lot of them came from child abuse. A lot of them came from drownings. Good number of them came from a high fever. Those were the biggies. Drowning was number one. It's amazing how many little kids drown, or almost drown.
Stan Mallow
You point out in your book that a high percentage of experiencers develop a strong psychic and intuitive abilities. Did they apply those gifts in their personal lives, be it for their careers or relationships? And by any chance, did any of them use those gifts to become professional psychic readers?
PMH Atwater
Yes to the part of most of them become highly psychic, highly intuitive, highly creative, all of those true. How many become pros? Very few. It's like that psychic ability just becomes part of their nature. They accept it that way. You know, a talent. This is part of their nature. What I found so very interesting, so very many just seemed to know things. And they would know their mom or their dad previous lives, or know a lot about them. They would know maybe siblings. They would know their teachers. One of the things that just really got me was going through school now, and junior high and high school, what we now call middle school and high school, even into college, they have what I call future memory. They know the future before it's going to happen. And I'm not talking about deja vu here. I'm talking about people who lived the future before it occurs. That is to say they will live the motion, the words, the conversation, what happens, what occurs because of what happens, and then they'll live it as if they are fully living it. it doesn't come as if in a flash, it doesn't come as if a knowing, they live it. So when they're in school, for instance, and some guy will come out, or a gang of people will invite a particular individual to go with them. And this one gal I was talking to you that, "No." "I told him no." And I said, "Why?" She said, "Well, I knew what was going to happen. "I knew everything that was going to happen. "I'd already felt it through. "And I decided, no, I didn't want on any part of that, "so I just told him no." It wasn't a matter of psychic. It was a matter of living that future before it occurred. You know, I wrote a whole book on that. Anybody who wants to delve... You know, adults do this too. I wrote a whole book on it called "Future Memory." So if you ever want to know about how this works and what it means, get the book "Future Memory."
Stan Mallow
In your book, you mentioned that many famous people, both historical figures and contemporary figures who went to the top of their respective fields and had, as a common denominator, near-death experiences as youngsters. And you spoke about that briefly previously, what I would like to know is, in your opinion, what could be the relationship to having a near-death experience as a child and achieving greatness in adulthood?
PMH Atwater
I would call it intensity. Because of that near-death experience, they're very curious about things, or they're very pulled, or drawn into things. You'll certainly see that if you read through that chapter. This one woman drawn into shells, skeletons a fish, anything that would wash up on the beach. And this was in England, and became a very famous scientist in skeletons of fish, and mammals, and this kind of thing. In the United States, another woman scientist who became very, very interested in auras. So she became the first one to develop a way to photograph them. This need, it's literally a need, to find out how that works, what you can do with it. It's like this fellow, I think he was in Sweden, he was so interested in paper. And in his near-death experience, and he's just a kid, in his near-death experience is shown what to do with that paper, wood, trees to make wood pulp to better paper. And he won all kinds of awards and is known worldwide for this clever, innovative way he found to make paper from trees, and not the normal way, but a much, much better way. We have all kinds of people who were shown, or were curious about, or were interested in, what is this object? What can I do with it? Or what is this pattern that people are displaying? What does it mean? Where does it come from? This incredible curiosity. You'll find that especially with anyone who had a near-death experience between birth and the age of five, it will be almost like a pressure. It will be almost like a have to that they need to explore where this is coming from in the world and what they can do to pursue it. Whether it's fashion, whether it's science in a laboratory, doesn't matter. It's the same sense. It's the same feeling. It's the same urge. What can I do to make it better? What can I do to make it different? And you're going to find this curiosity. Well, you know, I mentioned in there Benedict Cumberbatch. If you read the story of his life, I'm certain he died as a baby. Well he did, he froze, froze to death. They were able to thaw him out so to speak. And forever this knowledge, this feeling of stars in the sky, always, always, always. But long before he ever became an actor, this curiosity about people, and places on earth, and why we act the way we do, and what our responses for things, and he sort of turned the world and tried all kinds of things before he finally became an actor. And he's such a good actor because he has that knowledge and that knowing the way we are and what we can and can do to change things or make things better. Perfect example, Benedict Cumberbatch.
Stan Mallow
I found that chapter in your book fascinating. From Shakespeare, Lincoln, Einstein, Dr. Bernie Siegel, all of them having that common denominator of having near-death experiences as children. I mean, I found the whole chapter great, learned a lot which I did not know. Now, PMH, what advice would you give to a parent whose child opens up to them about remembering a past life, being on the other side, or even what it was like when they were in their mother's womb? What advice would you give to that parent of how to handle that situation if asked that by their children?
PMH Atwater
Well, certainly they need to get hold of the book. But another book, "The New Children and Near-Death Experiences." And the reason why I'm mentioning that, there's a large resource section in the back of the book just for a parent, how do you handle this with your kid? There's another thing that I've done. Look for the series of six books called "Animal Lights," and you'll get it only through amazon.com. Amazon lights. There are six different books. You can get all of them at once or just some of them. And the reason I call them "Animal Lights," we're taking baby animals from being on the other side, coming into the mommy's body, being in the womb, and then being born, and all the different kinds of things that can happen. What I hope is that all parents, any parents, grandparents get these books for their kid and sit down with the kid and say, "Well, did anything like that happened to you?" Let's take the little story of busy Betty Wiggles. She was a monkey baby. Does anything like that... Do you remember anything like busy Betty Wiggles? And, you know, it's just fascinating what these little books can do. There's Winnie Rolls Around. This is a horse that is born with a twisted leg, and how he handled that. So, in the womb, before he comes in, that pathway of light, and then gets into mommy's tummy in the womb and becomes this little horse. Then we've got Upsa Baby. This is about a skunk with a big tail who falls often and feels very different. You know, all these different animals, and the kids just love them. And it helps the child then to go back in their own mind. "Oh, did anything like that happen to me when I was in mommy's tummy? "Do I remember anything like that?" And it really helps the kids to remember.
Stan Mallow
Should my viewers want to order "The Forever Angels" or any of the other books you've written over the years on near-death experiences and spirituality, how can they go about doing it?
PMH Atwater
Any bookstore, certainly. All of your online, like Facebook. Well, you know, amazon.com and all these different places, or you can get on my website, I publish a free monthly newsletter. So www.pmhatwater.com. That's my website, my name dot com.
Stan Mallow
Of course. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in that. All I have to say is, PMH Atwater, I thank you for being my guest on Paranormal Yakker. I wish you wellness and many more successful books. It was great talking with you. Hi everyone, I'm Stan Mallow, the Paranormal Yakker. I hope you enjoyed the interview you just watched. It is my goal, my pledge, to always bring viewers of the show a great cross-section of guests from the vast body, mind, spirit, metaphysical, and paranormal worlds. To be sure you don't miss any interviews on my free YouTube channel, all you have to do is press the subscribe button on your screen.