Paranormal Yakker with your host Stan Mallow

Click on Patrick Cross photo below to view video Interview



Season 1 Episode 7

Patrick Cross Founder Discovery Ghosts!
Patrick Cross is the founder of Discovery Ghosts! In his interview with Stan Mallow, the Paranormal Yakker, Patrick talks about some of the more chilling episodes of the 300 plus paranormal investigations he has been involved with. This includes growing up in a house that was haunted by the ghost of a man who committed multiple murders in it, being abducted and experimented on by aliens, and varied other demonic encounters he has experienced. Because of his vast knowledge and expertise in matters related to the paranormal, Patrick has been interviewed by various media and invited to investigate paranormal activity in locations throughout Canada and the U.S.A. This includes exploring the energies of the over 50,000 Union and Confederate soldiers who lost their lives at Gettysburg, site of the bloodiest battle of the American Civil War. Some of the many ghost tours Patrick has organized include Casa Loma, Toronto's famous haunted castle, Emma's Back Porch in Burlington, where the ghosts of its original owners still inhabit this popular lakefront restaurant and taking tourists to Halton Region's Magnetic Hill.

Transcript of video Interview

Stan Mallow
Hi, everyone, I'm Stan Mallow. Welcome to the "Paranormal Yakker." My guest on today's show who I'll be yakking with is someone I've known for many years, someone who I've been privileged to go on paranormal investigations with. That is Patrick Cross, founder of Discovery Ghosts
Patrick Cross
Thank you.
Stan Mallow
Great having you in the studio here with me. To begin with, Patrick, do you recall when you first became interested in ghosts, hauntings, other aspects of the paranormal? Was it something you saw, experienced, or just curiosity?
Patrick Cross
Well, years ago, I grew up in a haunted house.
Stan Mallow
That would do it.
Patrick Cross
That would start, in Rexdale, Toronto. Ironically, the house that I was built on was on sacred Indian ground, and they leveled all the cemeterial graves and built all these new houses on, new divisions on it. My street became known as Ludgate, 'cause they took a lot of the street names from London, England. Ironically, Ludgate is the most haunted town in London, England, and the roads lead right to Stonehenge, which I didn't really know about, but, make a long story short, I grew up there in Toronto, and then I lived in LA for a while, lived in Nevada, but Toronto was my home. Just everything, and everything would start happening, before even movies ever came out, I experienced, you know, footsteps walking around, being touched, being pulled, being prodded, being attacked later on. Everything from ghosts to demonic activity built up, and reason for a lot of this was, later on, there was a murder at the house. Basically, it wasn't really disclosed, so my dad bought the house on a great deal, thinking it was cheap. What happened was, there was a family there living. The daughter and mother were there, and the father, and this guy was dating the daughter, I guess he went nuts, went psycho, ended up killing the daughter 'cause he couldn't have her, 'cause the parents didn't want him having her, and he chopped up all the bodies, and killed the daughter, and the mother, and the father. Later, he was committed insane, and he went to jail, you know, for life. But from there on, they didn't find all the body parts, and they're buried around the house, so that's where all the other stuff came in. I was experiencing all these screechings, all this things going on, crying, chopping up of axes, things like that, in the basement, all kinds of things going on. My dad, being a devout Christian, always thought the house was settling, so he never acknowledged really any of it.
Stan Mallow
Really? Wow. Patrick, a number of your 300-plus investigations resulted in some very chilling experiences, this including demonic encounters. Could you share with the "Paranormal Yakker" audience some of those encounters, and what was it about them that scared you?
Patrick Cross
Talk about paranormal, and ghosts, and everything, now, everybody knows ghosts. People die, move on. Ghosts are pretty well the spirits of somebody else, so most of the time, they're pretty normal, but when you get into entities, and demonic things, and other things, otherworldly things, shall I say, you don't know how to deal with it, you don't know how to describe it, it just happens, and people have been known to, you know, have attacks, and things like that. Why it comes to you and possesses you, I don't know. Haunted house, basically, I had all the ghost experiences, and everything else going on, but what really scared me was, these big, black, shadowy things would come walking down the hallway, and it'd look like just some giant guy, but some of them would be orange, and some of them would be, you know, just, a sense of evil, and scare you. This looked like a demon, basically. It was just always trying to get me. I did a show years ago called "Ghostly Encounters," and I reenacted a lot of the things that happened in my house. The weird part was, my dad always locked the doors on his hand, my brother would lock the doors, and I'd end up being, the thing's coming for me in my room. So it got really scary. It was just like, I ended up having seen blood on the walls, and dripping, and there'd be blood in the cabinets in the kitchen, and you open the kitchen doors, and blood would be dripping out, and like a liquid-y, sugary thing. We had an organ that wasn't even plugged in, and it would play weird music, and just all kinds of stuff was attacked all the time. It was just totally bizarre, and freaked me out, and I was young. At 14, 15 years old, I didn't know what to do, I didn't know what to think. I really hated going to sleep at night.
Stan Mallow
That's amazing, I mean, that you had to deal with that at such a young age. Was there anybody you were able to go and speak to? You said Dad chose to look the other way? Was there anybody else?
Patrick Cross
Well, in those days, in the '70s, nobody wanted to talk about things. They'll tell you you were nuts, or made things up. We're taught we have overactive imaginations. Even my brother saw stuff too. We'd see glowing eyes in the windows, and glowing eyes in my closet. You know, I'd go to bed, the closet was closed, open the door, and the doors would be open, and the little red eyes would be glowing at you, about four and a half feet tall. It was just constantly bizarre. They would just be talking, or whispering, or screaming at you, and just disappear, you know.
Stan Mallow
Out of curiosity, is that house still standing today?
Patrick Cross
I still get stuff now, but not as much. I've learned to deal with it, and I've learned to talk to different people, and psychics, and other things, 'cause I was psychically, as well, very sensitive in psychic, my mother was, so I don't know if that attracted it. I went and consulted authors, and my first real person I could talk to was John Robert Colombo, who wrote many books, who was very interested in folklore in Toronto, and since I grew up in Toronto, he didn't know much about ghosts, and I would go with him to places, and, you know, check out stuff, and say, well, it's haunted, and I could pick up things, and I could always tell what was there.
Stan Mallow
When you go on paranormal investigations, do you bring along with you other people who have certain specialties, specifically people like intuitives, channelers, or mediums?
Patrick Cross
I used to have a team. I work with different people all the time because I want to get different impressions, so there are some people that I have worked with, and there are people I've worked on the States that are very good or very gifted. I worked with Micky. You know Micky, I worked with her for a while. She picked up things. A lot of people are really scared to go. That was the main thing, you know. I was saying, hey, there's a ghost, there's a haunting going on. They don't even want to go, you know? They go, you go in, I'll stay out here. There was one girl I worked with, Carol Vaselle. We did many investigations with Terry Boyle as well up in the north, Muskoka. He wrote the book "Haunted Ontario," so we were involved with that. He called me up on his tours, and I'd help him, I would pick up things that was going on, and he did all these amazing tours in Muskoka.
Stan Mallow
When someone contacts you to conduct a paranormal investigation, do you have some sort of a check list that you go over with that person before you pursue the matter further?
Patrick Cross
Yeah, I have 62 questions that I ask people, and I go through it thoroughly because, one, we can make up things in our head. We all have psychic abilities, we all have energy, we put out an energy, we can be psychokinesis, and cause things to happen, and cause things to fall off the table, and throw things around, so getting to the point where, is it constant, is it happening, what did they do before it happened. There's a reaction to an action for everything, so you had to be doing something before it happened, right? Or they're living there, they moved in, or they're renovating, and renovations can cause ghosts to come through, 'cause now, they're disturbed. They're there, and you're there. There's a whole slew of things. Are they on medication? Are they on drugs? Are they on vitamins? There's one that I did in Muskoka. Again, there was a guy who was possessed, but he was on drugs. He became possessed because his immune system was so low, his energy allowed the energy and entities to come through.
Stan Mallow
Okay, so you do have a check list, so I figure you had to have some way of deciding to go through with something or not go through with something. You have organized countless tours, and conducted investigations of various places that have experienced paranormal activity. This includes Toronto's famous castle, Casa Loma, Emma's Back Porch and Water Street Cooker in Burlington, and the Halton region itself. What paranormal activity transpired at these places that you conduct tours of?
Patrick Cross
It all started back in 2001. Emma's Back Porch, for those that don't know, it's on the lake, it's on the lake shore in Burlington. It's one of the biggest restaurants in Burlington, and for that matter, Ontario. It's the longest-running restaurant in Ontario. You've been there.
Stan Mallow
Yeah, I was at a paranormal investigation with you there, yeah.
Patrick Cross
We did the "Paranormal Profiles" there. We did all kinds of things, but it started off as a TV thing that I did for Space TV, and they were so intrigued that I went in with a team, and we'd pick up all the ghosts and hauntings, and we've got a whole history of it. Then Craig, the owner, he gave us a diary of Emma, who, Emma Byrens originally lived there, and her husband lived there, George. Obviously, they passed on years later. She never wanted to leave, and he never wanted to leave, and they're both there as the ghosts, and she's running the place. It's not bad haunted, but very haunted.
Stan Mallow
I was over there with you, an investigation over there, and you could really cut with a knife the paranormal activity, the ghosts, the energies that are over there. For those who are not acquainted with Casa Loma, which is Toronto's castle, when did you begin taking tours over there, and what about it is haunted?
Patrick Cross
Well, they contacted me. I actually was interested in doing tours, spanning different places in Toronto. We were very popular 'cause I just did a thing with "Toronto Star," I did another magazine, we were doing "Toronto Life" magazine, we got a huge spread on that, and I was contacted by Casa Loma saying, hey, you guys are into history. Do you want to come and check out, see if there's anything haunted? There's been varied rumors, and let's put it to the test, and if it works out, you know, we can make this a tour, charge money, and have people come out and explore the history, 'cause that's what it was about. It was about 2009. I was also working with Michelle Desrochers at the time, and we were, like, the team, and we were looked at in high profile in the media, so we investigated all, we checked it out, and they said we could do a tour over it. We did enough, got the information, and we compiled it all, and went all through the rooms, and when we started promoting it, right off the bat, it took off. There's tons of visitors anyways, but they always had a self-guided tour. They never wanted to talk about ghosts 'cause they didn't really believe it. Then it was run by the Kiwanis Clubs in Toronto.
Stan Mallow
Yes.
Patrick Cross
And they were short of money, so they wanted to make this a tour, make it something that attract, but we always tried to keep in mind the history of it. We weren't promoting some dead guy. We were always trying to make it happen, that it was interesting and informative, and nobody really knew about Henry Pellatt, who was the most famous person, at that time, the most richest person in Canada, who started the electric company in Canada, in Toronto. Being that said, we bring people in, and we would find our findings, and I had some personal experiences right from the start. I guess he acknowledged those, he knew that we were gonna do this, or psychically, 'cause I picked up, he was still there, he was still living there, and he died. The one time I went there, this was prior to the tours, I'd go in his room, his main bedroom, and I literally saw the bed being sit on, in other words, there was a depression. It looked like a person was actually sitting on the bed, and I had a recording saying sit. It was just phenomenal. I was recording everything. Then he loved his desk, so I was looking at his desk, and he said, "Opposite, desk." It was just phenomenal. It was British voice. But I captured this, and it was like, you could see the depression on the bed. You could feel this energy moving around. I was trying to talk, but I guess he acknowledged me being there, and then we eventually recorded Lady Pellatt, Mary Pellatt, his wife. She was kinda like, not a nice woman. She was very demanding, and very crotchety, kinda like, you know kind of thing. What do you want to do here? It was funny 'cause we had a recording setting up. I was in the room by myself. Michelle was somewhere else. I walked in, and I heard a clear voice say, "Get out, human. "What do you want?" in a British voice, and it freaked me right out, 'cause I go, okay, I guess I'm still serving you, right? 'Cause they were looked at as royalty, right? So they had 13 or 14 servants there, so she was like saying, get out, human. So I guess she'd acknowledge me as now a human. She was dead, and I was her servant, so it was kinda funny.
Stan Mallow
Did a very, very good job of running the tours, and in the Halton region of Ontario, and having different types of tours there. Could you tell the audience something about the tours of that area, and what are the places that are most haunted in the Halton region?
Patrick Cross
Yeah, one that I find really interesting, that a lot of people overlook, is one of the places that is most famous in Burlington, for that matter, Halton region, is Magnetic Hill. Magnetic Hill is an actual hill, it's in Burlington, it's not far, but they could look it up. It's off of the main highway in Fairview. King's Road is where it is, and it's interesting because it's related to something, like, in Nova Scotia, or the famous Citadel Hill, where you can park your car in neutral, and people feel their car going up, being pushed by ghosts.
Stan Mallow
I know, I've been there, and it amazes me how many people from the area don't know about it. They know about Nova Scotia, they don't know it in their own backyard.
Patrick Cross
So, the thing is, it's an optical illusion, because what happens really is, the hill looks like it's up, but it's really going down, so when you put your car in neutral, your car is really rolling down because the landscape is on a ridge, yet it look like a hill, so people think the car's actually being rolled up, but many times, it goes further than that, which is kinda bizarre, because it stops on the hill, and the car keeps going for another 10, 20 feet. You feel like something's pushing it. Then I've had pictures where, I've got photos, look like there's pioneer guys, pioneer settlers walking around the field with guns. You could hear wagons, you could hear horses. It's just phenomenal. A lot of people don't know that it's also UFO-related, UFO-haunted. On the top of the hill, in the park, where they usually have, to take dogs out, it's a landing strip. It's actually a UFO sighting spot on top of the hill, and you can oversee the bay when you park there.
Stan Mallow
That I did not know.
Patrick Cross
Yeah, and I've seen a lot of things there that would just come flying over about 50, 100 feet up, just flying around, discs, and you know, small ships, and just hovering around by the bay, and just take off, and you can sit there and watch them. It's just phenomenal.
Stan Mallow
Because of your expertise in the field, you are the go-to person for people in the media who require the services of a paranormal expert. As a result, you've traveled extensively. Why do you think certain places, and buildings, and areas in those cities have more paranormal activity than other cities in the same state or province?
Patrick Cross
Well, I think paranormal exists in all areas. I think some places are more haunted than others because there may be tragedies there. Maybe something happened, maybe it was an accident, maybe it was a train accident, there was a wreck, maybe somebody died, the building fell over, who knows? You know, the fire, but you know, it's magnetically implanted, so the energy, we all are energy, so in other words, you go to a place, and you right away pick up something, and you can record it, and it keeps playing itself back, just like a tape recorder, so we're playing back that incident, whatever that happened, or whatever is pushed there, or put in time that was so tragic that it had to stay there, and we're playing it back and playing it back. That's residual energy that was from there. Somebody died, or somebody left that energy there, but they, you know, it just keeps going, whereas there was intelligent energy, intelligent ghosts, where now, we were actively talking to them, and they can talk back, and they know the time, the date, and everything else. I think you were with me at Emma's. We knew the time, she was saying what time it was exactly at night, and she wanted coffee, and it was phenomenal 'cause she was totally actively talking to us. She was dead, she knows she's dead, and she's all concerned about, what are we doing in her place? I mean, like, she's pleasantly haunting it. She's still there, she doesn't want to leave. Yet there's other places that are tragic, that there was a murder, especially in Gettysburg, when I went there last summer. Just phenomenal energy. You could just feel the amount of energy, how much, many people died for their country, their families, so there's 150,000 men that were killed in battle, of that war, 1862, in the Battle of Gettysburg for three days in July. It's just phenomenal, phenomenal stuff, I went there.
Stan Mallow
Yeah, do you find, I've got to speak to them and that, but there's always reenactments over there in Gettysburg every year, and a lot of people anticipate, be they on one side or the other side of the war or the conflict over there, that they feel that they live there, that was a reincarnation, and you're part of it. Did you ever get to speak to anybody who shared that with you?
Patrick Cross
Essentially, 'cause I talked to a few people who were doing it, and they set up camps, they set up the whole thing, and they swear, the guys that are participating are part of the guys, and they go and talk to them, the guys'll go, hey, where's your bullets, and this and that, and then they look at this guy, and he would look totally normal, and he disappeared right in front of them. The actual ghosts are still fighting, that are there, the guys who died, and they're interacting with the people who are doing the reenactment, and they said it's phenomenal. They're thinking the battle's still going on, and the ghosts are still fighting the battle. When I was there, I smelled gunpowder, I hear cannons going off, I hear horses flying by, guys fighting on the battlefield with swords and they'd disappear.
Stan Mallow
Now, people have always been interested in ghosts and haunted places. They've become especially popular in recent years. I believe just about every city now has a ghost tour. Why do you think they've become so popular? And they are.
Patrick Cross
You know, again, people want to explore the area, explore tourism in general. The culture's kinda gone away now 'cause more people, the younger crowd are hanging around bars or eating, but I still think people have an interest in nature and the history of where they are and where they're from, so they like it because it's interesting to them. They can go as a group. They might get scared. They have fun with it. People are more willing to go as a group than by themselves 'cause they'll go, well, at least somebody's there to save me, or you know, I won't get so scared, or I could scare my husband, or I could scare my wife, right? I think it's way bigger in the U.S. than it is in Canada. It's dropped a lot here now. I mean, there are ones in Kingston, there are ones in Hamilton. Because, I guess people do it so long, it's always the same, so nobody's really, you know, the people are still coming, but ours has dropped down quite a bit. We used to do it all summer. Now we do them mostly in the end of summer and fall. There's still an interest, but sadly, it's more geared for Halloween and scaring now. I don't make a lot of money off it. I mean, I charge for the tour, and the history tour, and the ghosts. It's more of a hobby and a passion for me.
Stan Mallow
You enjoy doing it.
Patrick Cross
'Cause I enjoy doing it, and I built up a lot of the history of Burlington. That's something that, people like to come out with us. It's interesting that way. Everybody's trying to do it, but now, I don't know if it's a money-getter or anything like that. Now, people are charging tons of money to go on these investigations in the U.S., like you can go on a dinner, but you're spending, like, 80 to 100 bucks, so it's kind of a cash grab, and sadly, they're not respecting the whole idea.
Stan Mallow
That is sad.
Patrick Cross
I used to do things even for free, you know, for groups.
Stan Mallow
Mm-hm, now it seems most ghost walks take place at night. Why is that? Is it because paranormal activity manifests itself more when it's dark, or is it that nighttime is just scarier?
Patrick Cross
It's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of both. I've done them in the day, but it's not the same, because the reason people mostly do it at night, because it's spookier, it's scarier. You know, when you're in the dark, and you're in your house, and you turn off your light, and you're scared even though you know it's your own house, so when you're walking around a place, and it's all dark, and scary, and spooky, and it's dim light, and you see shadows and things, and our mind plays tricks on us, so we think we're seeing something that we're not maybe. At the same time, you can see more at night, you can see orbs and things. You can't see anything in the day 'cause it's all transparent. So, at nighttime, if there is something there and it's manifesting, you can usually see it, and you can shine a light on it. You can't do that in the day, so it's very hard to capture anything in the daytime other than if you hear a voice or hear bangs. Even at Casa Loma, we hear stuff in the day, but we could more or less get something at night 'cause now, we could videotape the room, and it's a low light that we can actually see these things, and ghosts, and spirits.
Stan Mallow
Yeah, well, should any "Paranormal Yakker" viewers want to contact you to go on one of your haunted tours, or investigate paranormal activity they're experiencing, how do they go about getting in touch with you?
Patrick Cross
There's two ways. One is my main website that I've had now, we're 20 years going, Burlington Ghost Walks, yay. 20 year anniversary coming up. Hopefully, it is gonna be a Friday the 13th before that in October, but burlingtonghostwalks.ca is my main page with all the information and a lot of the ghost photos that we caught in many places, in places that are haunted, and my own Facebook page as Patrick Cross, so I'm on there, and always answering questions and helping people out. Then they can contact me through Messenger, Facebook Messenger, as well. Discovery Ghosts! is another page, but that's another part of the investigations that I do because I use that to do a lot of international tours and tours in the U.S. 'cause nobody really knows Burlington Ghost Walks in the U.S., but they heard of Discovery Ghosts!
Stan Mallow
Thanks to you, it's becoming well known, so that's great. Your different tours, and I hope they appreciate you. At any rate, Patrick, I want to thank you very much. You've been a wonderful guest. I look forward to having you a guest again, and maybe going on some more paranormal investigations with you in the future.